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Stillbirth Happens - let's talk

Through stories of lived experiences, this podcast hopes to normalize the conversation about stillbirth and give those touched by it a place to learn, grieve, and find connection. 

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Episodes

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Finding my voice: Parenting James and Zachary

 

This episode begins and ends with Jaime’s story about the stillbirths of her sons, James and Zachary and is about love, loss, and the long, often quiet, journey Jaime took to find her voice. In between the segments of Jaime’s story, we hear from Dr. Astrid Christofferson-Deb, an obstetrician-gynecologist at BC Women’s Hospital + Health Centre, who shares how care providers can support families through stillbirth by offering care, courage and strength. (Transcript)

[2:06] “She was born at 33 weeks, and she was a NICU baby”

Babies born at 33 weeks are premature and may require specialized care to help them transition to life outside the womb. 


NICU - or Neonatal Intensive Care Unit - is a specialized hospital unit that provides care for premature or critically ill newborn infants. A NICU is equipped with advanced technology and staffed by a multidisciplinary team of experts to address various medical conditions that may arise in a premature infant. BC Women’s Hospital + Health Centre NICU


[3:01] “I didn’t know the word stillbirth, we had signs that there were difficulties in our pregnancy from the 12-week ultrasound and then the 18-week ultrasound and the next five weeks of MFM visits”


Maternal Fetal Medicine (MFM) specialists are expert physicians that support high-risk pregnancies. MFM appointments are typically for pregnant people who have pre-existing medical conditions, develop complications during pregnancy, or whose babies have health issues. MFM specialists care may include diagnostic tests and treatment to support the well-being of both the birthing person and the baby. BC Women’s Hospital + Health Centre MFM



[5:21] “So with James, like I said, we had indications there appeared to be less amniotic fluid than was normal”. 


Amniotic fluid is the protective liquid that surrounds a developing baby in the uterus throughout the pregnancy. This fluid acts as a cushion, protecting the baby from injury and temperature changes while allowing for movement and the baby's growth and development. Amniotic fluid contains important nutrients and antibodies.


Normal levels of amniotic fluid, measured by the Amniotic Fluid Index (AFI), typically range from 5-25cms. AFI measurements outside this range may indicate a problem.  


A low level of amniotic fluid means there is less than the expected amount of amniotic fluid surrounding the baby in the uterus. A low level of amniotic fluid can affect the baby's development and potentially lead to complications during labour and delivery. 



[7:20] “I think it’s called the antenatal unit, okay yeah”


An antenatal unit is a specialized hospital area that provides care for pregnant people experiencing complications that require hospitalization before delivery. These units focus on monitoring and managing pregnancies to support the health of the birthing person and the baby.


[9:38] “Well, just the care team that I had, I was followed by a high risk OBGYN”. 


A high-risk OBGYN, also known as a maternal-fetal medicine specialist (MFM) or perinatologist, is an obstetrician-gynecologist (OBGYN) who specializes in managing pregnancies that carry an increased risk for the birthing person, baby or both. These physicians have advanced training and expertise in addressing the unique challenges and potential complications associated with pregnancy.


[19:15] “I also work at South Community Birth Program” 


The South Community Birth Program (SCBP) is a health clinic based in Vancouver, Canada, open to all pregnant people. The SCBP is staffed by a group of physicians, registered midwives, nurses and doulas. SCBP provides care during pregnancy, labour and birth, and six weeks postpartum.


[19:31] “But there is recent research that has shown that in high income countries, when they look at people who’ve had a first stillbirth, they actually are more likely in their next pregnancy to either have another stillbirth or to have a complication in pregnancy. 


 

It changes you forever

 

In this episode, we speak with Helen, whose daughter, AnaRose, was stillborn 17 years ago. We will also hear from Anya, a registered clinical counselor, to learn how grief impacts us over time. Together, Helen and Anya share how stillbirth changes us forever. (Transcript)

Resources
Glossary of terms, non-medical
  • Bereavement box: a box used for storing mementos that may be personalized with the baby’s name, picture or some other design element. Bereavement boxes can provide a special place to keep memory aids. Contact your local hospital to speak with a social worker if you are interested in donating items for a bereavement box.
  • Compound grief: also known as cumulative grief; occurs when several losses pile up over one another.
  • Ambiguous loss: when a baby is stillborn, parents and family members may struggle for years to find out why the baby died, if answers even exist. . Surviving siblings may grieve a baby who died before they were born. Society may dismiss stillbirth as an invisible death, yet the grief parents and families experience after a stillbirth can be lifelong.
  • Mourning rituals: ways of honouring your child such as taking pictures, making molds of their hand and foot prints, and/or saving a lock of their hair.
  • Continued bonds: connection that extends beyond the life of a loved one. Examples of continuing bonds include using your baby’s name in stories, keeping a journal about them, wearing jewellery, or visiting places that remind you of them.
  • Self activism: the sense of empowerment that follows a loss as one seeks to change the world around them for the better. Some examples include raising awareness of, and reducing the stigma around stillbirth, advocating for improved care for the bereaved, and offering support to other bereaved parents.
  • Complicated grief: ongoing, heightened state of mourning that keeps you from healing. Symptoms may include: intense sorrow, emotional pain, and rumination over the loss of your loved one.
Quotes
Medical glossary of terms
  • Placental abruption: The placenta is a round organ that forms in the early part of pregnancy in the uterus. It supports the growth and well-being of the pregnancy in a number of ways through its connection to the developing baby through the umbilical cord.  Placental abruption occurs in 1 in 100 people when the placenta separates from the wall of the uterus too early, before the baby is born.
  • Hemorrhaging: The loss of a lot of blood in a short period of time. This can occur for various reasons during pregnancy and childbirth. Bleeding may happen internally (inside the body) or externally (outside the body).
  • Hemorrhaging from placental abruption: Placental abruption may cause hemorrhaging.
  • D&C: Dilation and curettage (D&C) is a procedure to remove tissue from inside the uterus through the cervix.
  • Low iron levels from hemorrhaging: It is common to have low iron levels after a placental abruption with hemorrhaging. When this happens you may feel weak, short of breath or lightheaded.




Grief has no timeline

 

In this episode, we speak with Emma Hansen about how she coped after her son, Reid, was stillborn. She reflects on how she managed the first year missing Reid, and how she and her family found meaningful ways to honour him. (Transcript)

Resources

Glossary

  • Cervidil® (dinoprostone) – a medication delivered through the vagina to assist with labour by softening the cervix and preparing it for birth.  Cervidil and induction of  labour

 


Asking questions, finding answers

 

In this episode we'll hear from Courtney Hiller who, together with her husband Jasyn made the difficult decision to terminate their pregnancy after their son Luca was diagnosed with multiple health conditions that were incompatible with life. We’ll also hear from OB/GYN Megan O’Neill, whose own son, George, was stillborn at 33 weeks. Courtney and Megan demonstrate how to use our voices to ask questions, find answers, and seek support from community and others with lived experience of stillbirth.  (Transcript)

Resources

Glossary

Spina bifida myelomeningocele:  Spina bifida is a birth defect that affects the spine and spinal cord. During early development, the neural tube, which eventually forms the spinal cord and brain, doesn't close properly. This leads to a gap or opening in the bones of the spine, causing a range of potential complications. When someone has spina bifida, it means that their spinal cord and the protective covering around it may not fully develop or may be exposed. The severity can vary, with some individuals experiencing minor symptoms while others may have more significant challenges. Spina bifida occulta is the most mild and common form and myelomeningocele is the most severe and rare. 


Chiari II malformation:  also known as Arnold-Chiari malformation, is a structural defect in the brain that is present at birth (congenital). It is often associated with spina bifida, specifically myelomeningocele. In Chiari II malformation, the lower part of the brain, called the cerebellum, is displaced downward through an opening at the base of the skull called the foramen magnum. This displacement causes the cerebellum and parts of the brainstem to extend into the upper spinal canal. This abnormal positioning and pressure can disrupt the flow of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF), the fluid that surrounds and cushions the brain and spinal cord. Chiari II malformation can lead to various neurological symptoms and complications. Common symptoms include headaches, neck pain, difficulty swallowing, problems with coordination and balance, muscle weakness, and sensory issues. 


Severe hydrocephalus: Build up of excess cerebrospinal (CSF) in the brain.


Folic acid and neural tube defects (like spina bifida): Folic acid is a B vitamin. If a person has enough folic acid in their body before and during pregnancy, it can help prevent major birth defects of the baby’s brain and spine. People who are pregnant need 400 micrograms (mcg) of folic acid every day. Taking folic acid before and during the 1st three months of pregnancy does not guarantee the baby will not have spina bifida, but it can significantly reduce the risk.  Research has shown that if people who could become pregnant took a multivitamin with folic acid, the risk of neural tube defects like spina bifida could be reduced by up to 70%. 



What happens at the hospital?

 

In this episode, we’ll hear from Erin Sowerby Greene, who learned, at 37 weeks pregnant, that her daughter Briar no longer had a heartbeat. We’ll also hear from Anne-Marie Cayer, a registered midwife with experience supporting families in both urban and rural, remote and Indigenous communities. Erin and Anne-Marie teach us that although hospital procedures can vary from region to region, babies who are stillborn are still born, and their families deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. (Transcript)

Book referred to: Alan D. Wolfelt.(2001). Healing Your Grieving Heart: 100 Practical Ideas. Compassionate advice and simple activities to help you through your loss. Companion Press, CO. www.centerforloss.com

Nonstress test (NST) is a screening test used in pregnancy to assess the baby’s heartbeat patterns.  It can show heart rate changes when the baby moves and may show changes when the uterus contracts, such as happens during labour.

CuddleCots are small, portable, lightweight units that enable families experiencing the loss of their baby at any age or gestation to spend more time together. The unit is connected to a hose and mat. The baby is placed on top of the mat, which ensures that the baby remains cool. A CuddleCot was not available to Erin and Cameron after Briar was born which limited the amount of time they could spend with her. As a result of their experience, Erin and Cameron started a fundraising campaign to purchase Cuddlecots for local communities in Briar’s memory, and to give other families the gift of more time with their babies. Read more about Briar's Story - A CuddleCot Fundraiser.


Related Resources


Stillbirth happens - So let's talk about it

 

In this episode we speak with Jennifer Kuznetsov whose first baby, Andrey, died unexpectedly at 29 weeks gestation. We also hear from Kirsten Duckitt, a retired OB/GYN, about why there's still so much silence surrounding stillbirth. Stillbirth happens more frequently than people think. (Transcript)

Dry Creek Mountain View Cemetery Infant Graves Area

The dry creek landscape is a memorial garden commemorating  more than 6,000 infants interred at Mountain View Cemetery between 1914 and 1972.  This area is not available for additional interments and families may not add their own stones to commemorate babies who are not already buried there. 


Mountain View Cemetery currently provides burial spaces for babies along the hedge on the west side of the cemetery between ~34th and 36th Avenues.  These spaces are provided at no charge; however, there is a cemetery fee of $205 for the burial.  Families may order a permanent marker at an additional cost. 

 

At the end of 2023 the program will be modified to provide space for infant interment with no individual markers allowed.  Cemetery fees will still be applied.  Commemoration will be optional on a shared marker provided by the cemetery.  If families wish to have a burial space where they can provide an individual marker, sites can be purchased for $2,000 (for caskets under 24”) or for $4,000 (for caskets up to  48”).


Quote by Earl A. Grollman, "Grief is love's unwillingness to let go".


Related resources

 


Meet the hosts

Erin Bohn 2023 - cropped.jpgErin Bohn

Erin is committed to ensuring equitable access to stillbirth resources across Canada and reducing the stigma associated with stillbirth. Erin dedicates much of her free time to the stillbirth community, in part to honour her daughter Ryann who was stillborn in 2010.  She lives in rural Manitoba with her two children, Gracie and Quinn.

Jaime Ascher 2023 - cropped.jpg

Jaime Ascher

Jaime is passionate about developing resources to support bereaved parents and is driven to create tools for clinicians both in hospital and community settings to better support families through stillbirth. Jaime parents her sons: James who was stillborn in 2010 and Zachary who was stillborn in 2013  through this work. Jaime lives in BC with her husband  Chris and daughter Marissa.


Hummingbird Project

The Hummingbird Project

We work to increase awareness of the impact of stillbirth on individuals, families and clinicians, to enhance the quality of information available, and to improve care. 

In 2017 we  set out to study the effects of group  clinical support for people pregnant after stillbirth, but bereaved parents quickly told us that they needed was support throughout their grief journey after stillbirth, not just at the time of a subsequent pregnancy.  


In 2021 we spoke with over 50 Canadian bereaved parents and 10 Canadian clinicians with experience supporting families through stillbirth about how to support parents and clinicians after stillbirth.  


The "Stillbirth Happens - let's talk" podcast is the product of conversations with bereaved parents and clinicians who support them. Specific podcast episode topics were identified by people with lived experience of stillbirth, as were the episode themes, length, format, and style. ‎ The first five episodes launched in 2023. In January 2024, the podcast received an international bronze Anthem Award for excellence in mission-driven work and community voice. Subsequent episodes were launched in 2025. 


The goal of this podcast is to break the silence about stillbirth and to facilitate talking about stillbirth as a part of the reproductive journey. 


We hope this podcast reaches those who need it, whenever they need to hear a voice to make them feel less alone. We want to provide information in the dark days and hope for brighter days.  


If you have been touched by stillbirth, we built this podcast for you. 

 
ANN PEDERSON: Hummingbird Project Principal Investigator and  Director, Population Health Promotion, BC Women's Hospital + Health Centre

LANA SULLIVAN: Hummingbird Project Research Manager and Co-investigator, and Project Manager, Population Health Promotion, BC Women's Hospital + Health Centre

LEE SAXELL: Hummingbird Project Co-investigator, practicing midwife for over 30 years, and Co-director of the South Community Birth Program located in Vancouver, BC

JAIME ASCHER: Hummingbird Project Co-investigator, co-host of "Stillbirth Happens - let's talk" podcast, and bereaved parent

ERIN BOHN: Hummingbird Project Co-investigator, co-host of "Stillbirth Happens - let's talk" podcast, and bereaved parent

AJ MURRAY:  Hummingbird Project Advisor, Knowledge Translation Specialist, Population Health Promotion, BC Women's Hospital + Health Centre

SHABNAM ZIABAKHSH: Evaluation Specialist, Population Health Promotion, BC Women's Hospital + Health Centre
 
Many thanks to those who supported us on this journey. We wish to particularly acknowledge:

Lynn Farrales for her vision for the research, dedication to ensuring the voices of bereaved parents were central to all activities, and keen attention to detail in analyzing the grief and loss data.  

Nicole Prestley  and the Women's Health Research Institute for their practical research assistance and overall support. 

Julia Santana Parilla and Elizabeth Borycki for their advice and support through the qualitative analysis process. 

Amanda Martin,  Alena Astashenkava and Tiana Magel for project coordination, facilitation, note taking, and reflections. 

All the podcast guests, for their courage and dedication of time to share and record their stories: 

Stillbirth happens, so lets talk about it
Jennifer Kuznetsov and Kirsten Duckitt

What happens at the hospital?
Erin Sowerby Greene and Anne-Marie Cayer

Having questions and finding answers
Courtney McCallum and Megan O'Neill

Grief has no timeline
Emma Hansen

It changes you forever
Helen Varga and  Anya Mostrenko 

Finding my voice: Parenting James and Zachary
Jaime Ascher and Astrid Christoffersen-Deb

Since the start of this project, we have spoken with over 250 bereaved parents committed to sharing their experiences of stillbirth in the hope of supporting others. 

We were fortunate to interview  clinicians from across Canada. Each volunteered to share their experiences with us as part of their commitment to improving the quality of care given to families navigating stillbirth journeys.  

As the podcast has developed, we have heard from many more people whose lives have been touched by stillbirth. We have also been supported by colleagues from across the country including the Butterfly Support Network, the Pregnancy and Infant Loss Support Centre, and the Pregnancy and Infant Loss Network

‎Jar Audio:  Thanks to Jar Audio for their belief in the power of storytelling, their focus on the listener as the heart of the podcast, their commitment to embracing creative courage, and their dedication to outstanding audio quality. Jar Audio produced the first five episodes of Stillbirth Happens - let's talk.

Jasmine Coleman: We are grateful to Jasmine for supporting the need to keep the story of bereaved parents in the centre of every episode, for her editing magic, and for attention to journalistic details.  Jasmine - you bring joy to doing things just a little bit different. 

We are grateful to the Butterfly Support Network, the Vancouver Foundation, and a  donor who wishes to remain anonymous for their financial support.
In the Hummingbird Project, bereaved parents are equal contributors with hospital-based researchers: from designing the questions, facilitating the interviews and focus groups, analyzing the data, identifying podcast guests, becoming podcast co-hosts, reviewing scripts and episode descriptions, and approving all final products of the research. This form of research highlights the value of having the lived experience of stillbirth inform all stages of the research. Contributions from all team members are given equal weight which allows for a deeper understanding of the findings.

For more information contact:
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